NEWS

Former Nevada Gov. Bob List is shown after a July 22 interview in his office.

Q&A: Bob List

Former Nevada governor

Interviewed by By Richard N. Velotta (contact), In Business reporter Fri, Aug 14, 2009 (3 a.m.)

Although he was Nevada’s governor more than 25 years ago, Bob List, 72, still has a keen awareness of the state’s political landscape.

That should be of value to clients of his new employer — St. Louis-based law firm Armstrong Teasdale, which has opened offices in Las Vegas and Reno.

List held Nevada’s highest office from 1979 to 1983 and was attorney general from 1971 to 1979.

His name was in the news after leaving office as a supporter of a nuclear waste repository at Yucca Mountain.

List discussed his new role, the status of Yucca and Nevada politics with In Business Las Vegas:

IBLV: Tell me a little about the Robert List Co., first of all.

List: The Robert List Co. was formed back about 1988, and essentially it’s a government affairs consulting firm. It’s not a legal firm. It’s a private consulting firm, and it’s done work all over the country for developers and folks who deal with government entities.

Now you’re working with the law firm Armstrong Teasdale. Can you tell me about how that transition occurred and what you’re doing with the law firm?

I was approached by Armstrong Teasdale about a year and a half ago, and I knew then that they were considering expanding their practice here in Nevada. I went back to St. Louis, met with the partners and was tremendously impressed with the quality of the people and the breadth of experience and talent that they have. And they were assembling a group of lawyers in Nevada to expand the offices here in Las Vegas and in Reno. I had missed practicing law and so I decided I wanted to get back into it. And it’s been a wonderful relationship. It’s a great firm.

What’s your expertise in your practice?

It’s government affairs. I deal with federal and local and state officials, both elected and appointed, agencies that regulate our lives and regulate the businesses that our firm represents. The firm has taken a very aggressive, expansive attitude toward Nevada and we now have a full-service opportunity in our offices. It’s exciting to be a part of it.

Who are some of Armstrong Teasdale’s major clients?

Well, we represent developers, we represent international companies; we have 300 lawyers total in the firm. And the lawyers’ offices run all the way from Washington, D.C., to Beijing, China, so our clients are both national and international. We advise them on all kinds of matters. We have a great presence in terms of intellectual property law, patents, and copyright work. In fact, here in Nevada, we do a great deal of that and have lawyers both in Reno and Las Vegas engaged in the patent practice.

This is obviously a very prestigious firm. Why the interest in Nevada?

Well, Nevada is one of the few states in America where there’s a long-term upside from a business perspective. There’s lots of room to grow, a tremendous tax climate in which to operate, a friendly government that welcomes new companies coming in, welcomes diversification; and I think that, like many Midwestern law firms, they are looking to expand into the Southwest and particularly into Nevada. The other thing that’s special about this firm is that we charge Midwestern rates rather than the kind of rates that you see in Los Angeles or New York. So that’s a big positive for us.

Will the firm also do some gaming law?

Yes, we have gaming expertise, we have land-use expertise; we do lots of transactional corporate work, a lot of litigation. We represent a number of government agencies. I represent, personally, four counties here in Nevada. Rick Campbell, in our Reno office, also represents some government agencies including ... Pahrump ... So we’re very diversified across the state in terms of our clients and the work that we do.

What other business interests do you have in Southern Nevada?

I sit on some boards of directors. I sit on the board of American Asphalt and Grading, which is a company that historically has done a lot of good work in this valley. And I sit on (the board of) another construction company called Clark & Sullivan, where I’m also a part owner. These two companies are good examples of the downturn of this economy. We had to lay off people and sell off equipment. It’s sad to see some of that going on. I’m chairman of the board of First Interstate Bank. So I’m seeing in the banking industry and the regulation of the banking industry the consequences of this economic downturn. I think this thing has a way to go before it completes its cycle. We may have reached the bottom, but the climb up from the bottom, I’m afraid, is several months away.

What does you crystal ball say about the recovery from the recession?

I’d like to hope that a year from now we’re starting to experience some recovery. But it’s tough on these families, individuals, investors, shareholders and employees, all the stakeholders in this valley who came here looking for opportunity and for the future for their families. It’s just tough to see. But in the long term, I’m very optimistic because Nevada has tremendous resources. A lot of the work I’m doing with our law firm is related to renewable energy. I’m working on a major wind energy project in Northern Nevada and will probably be involved very shortly on a major solar project in this part of the state. I can’t say the names of the companies at this point because these projects have not been publicly announced. But our law firm is involved in promoting them. We’re really great believers in green energy and in the opportunity we have in Nevada for that because of our wide-open spaces and the climate here. We’re ideally positioned as a state to be a leader and there are lots of incentives now that our Legislature has brought forward. And the Congress, with our delegation’s support, has enacted that which really make it possible. Transmission has been a major roadblock, but there are some new avenues and new opportunities to bring transmission in. So I’m excited to be a part of that and I know that Armstrong Teasdale is very pleased with that.

Let’s talk about Yucca Mountain. You’re the highest profile Nevada supporter of the Yucca Mountain nuclear repository project. Can you assess the status of that project given some of the recent developments?

Well I saw an interesting comment in the newspaper. It was from (Energy Secretary Steven) Chu, who said that he views the project as being dead. But the Nuclear Regulatory Commission licensing activity he views as sort of a rehearsal for a future licensing process for a site somewhere else. Given the current administration’s approach to it, I guess that’s the official policy. My job is not to advocate the program at all. It’s simply, on behalf of counties I represent, to make sure that in this licensing proceeding, or in any other future site, that the communities are protected; that they are provided with the kind of emergency response facilities that they need; that their roads are improved so that the safety of the transportation (of nuclear waste) can be assured. Those are the kinds of things we’re focused on. In other words, a constructive approach to any project wherever it’s built.

Chu said that it was dead, and maybe the administration feels that way. What do you feel? Do you think it’s dead?

I think it’s kind of on life support. The funding has been cut dramatically and, certainly, given the current administration’s approach — President Obama’s approach, Majority Leader Harry Reid’s approach — it’s not going to happen on their watch, absolutely not. Someday maybe it would happen here. That’s possible, but the likelihood of that is very difficult to project from a percentage standpoint. For the time being I think we have to assume it’s at least on hold and probably on life support.

Looking back on it now, do you regret having supported the project? What have you gained or lost because of that support?

Well, I did advocate for the project when I was representing the industry itself. I no longer represent (it); and, certainly, there were those who felt that I shouldn’t have been in that position. But it’s always been my view that you have to deal with the hand that’s dealt you. And it was my feeling that if the project were to come here, that we needed to benefit from it. We needed to get the upside opportunity and we had to view that in a realistic way. And it still could happen. The project, frankly, up to date has been good for Nevada. We’ve had hundreds and hundreds, actually 500, employees here, well-paid people. The payroll’s been good for the valley. So we’ve lost nothing at this stage, certainly.

How do your clients in some of the counties that were directly affected feel about it?

I think they take the same position that they’ve historically had, which is we don’t know if it’s going to happen or not. It’s not up to us to decide, but we need to be prepared, and if it comes, we want some economic benefits out of it and we want to make sure our citizens are protected and we want to make certain the environment is protected.

You had a front-row seat at the state Legislature. Since we’ve just completed the 2009 legislative session, what did you think of (it)?

I thought it was an exercise in putting off decisions. The state is going to face a far-worse situation two years from now. They got a windfall with the federal bailout money that they got, which alleviated the need to either increase taxes or cut services. Basically, they put the decision off. So, it was interesting to watch, but I’ve never seen anything quite like it.

What can state lawmakers do to solve the some of the state’s long-term problems?

They’re either going to have to raise taxes or they’re going to have to curtail government’s role in providing some services. Or, realistically, there could very well be some combination of the two. There’s certainly a lot of money that can still be saved, in my judgment. At the same time, we don’t ever, I don’t think, want to become a state where we have income taxes on citizens or corporations, taxes that deter businesses from coming in here and creating jobs, because that’s really what economic opportunity is all about. It’s our jobs and payrolls and the ability of families to support themselves, educate their kids. We need good schools, obviously, to educate those children. There’s no easy answer in finding that balance of what’s a fair cost, what’s a reasonable price to pay.

Does the state need a broad-based business tax as many prominent gaming industry executives argue? Why or why not?

I don’t think we need another tax on business. Certainly it’s understandable if gaming would advocate for that. They pay a significant share of the taxes in Nevada through the revenues they bring in from our tourists and our visitors. So, in effect, the tourists and the visitors are paying those taxes. They’re the ones that are primarily engaging in the gaming, or attending the shows paying the entertainment taxes, paying the sales taxes in the restaurants on the Strip. So we see something on the order of 50 percent of our tax revenues from that industry and I’m sure that the gamers are concerned that in the future that those taxes might go up and it’s a natural tendency to want other people to share in that process. But what we’re seeing here in Nevada are small businesses failing and we look around these shopping centers with vacancies and we see people filing bankruptcies and we see families leaving Nevada. We’ve had 10,000 people leave Nevada recently. That’s the first time in our history that our population has actually shrunk. That’s a direct result of jobs not being here. I just don’t think that we can afford to increase business taxes.

If we rely heavily on some of these taxes that we have now, when you have this economic climate that we have now, it seems that we all suffer and we have to deal with deficits — what’s the answer?

There’s no magic blackboard that you can write an answer on. If there were, we’d sure welcome it. The answer is a political answer. People have to decide how much they want to pay for and the legislators have to listen to them. I’m not sure they were listening very well this last session. A lot of people were opposed to what happened in terms of the taxes that were raised, but, thank goodness, we had at least a Band-Aid in the form of those funds that came in on a temporary, one-time basis.

As you point out, we’re going to be looking at it all over again in 2011.

Oh yeah, and twice as bad.

We have a gaming tax that’s pretty low. Do you think the gaming taxes should be raised? If so, by how much? If not, why not?

Our taxes are low by comparison to some of the states, but most of the states that have higher taxes have limited numbers of casinos, often in the form of riverboats. So they have limited competition. And if you have a franchise or an exclusive opportunity in a town with a casino, you can afford to pay more because you’re the only game in town. So that explains why they’re able to charge more. Do we want to raise taxes here on gaming? Certainly not. You go down the Strip today and you see these steel skeletons standing there with cranes over them, with not a single worker on site because the money, the ability, the economics and the feasibility of more and expanded gaming is just not there. When a Bill Boyd (chairman of Boyd Gaming) or a Jim Murren (MGM Mirage CEO) or a Sheldon Adelson (Las Vegas Sands chairman) make those hard decisions to curtail an expansion or limit it or to say we’re on hold. I think I saw a comment the other day from Jim Murren, “We’re going to be flat for 10 years.” When the government takes money for more taxes, it cuts right into the jobs, the ability to pay employees, to give them raises or to hire more people.

What should be done to improve the state’s education system?

Well, this might not be popular with some people, but I personally believe that the School District in Clark County, which is the third or fourth largest in America, needs to be broken into smaller components. I think that it’s very difficult to get accountability at the local school level when your administrators, your senior administrators and your school board are individuals that you probably never even met. School districts generally across America, the smaller ones, do much better because there’s more parent involvement, more parent participation, volunteer work. That’s my belief.

When you factor in the amount of funding that goes into the school pensions, to the retirement programs, to the benefits that they have, the health benefits, time off and so forth, we don’t stand too badly in what our teacher pay is. But we’ve also got a situation where the there’s a huge ratio of high amounts of money being spent on administration compared to teachers. I think I saw someplace that there’s 0.7 administrators for every one teacher. To me, that seems out of balance.

By decentralizing the school districts, wouldn’t you actually add to the layers of administration because you’d have multiple superintendents and multiple subordinates of those?

Well, I think the same number of people that we have right now deployed in a different way could certainly manage and administer four or five school districts and come up with a better end result in terms of quality of education.

How about higher ed? Any thoughts on how the higher education system in the state is doing and what needs to be done to raise enrollments? And we’ve talked about tuition increases are taking effect. What needs to be done for higher ed?

I think it’s inevitable that our tuition is going to have to be raised. An honest, objective look at what our students pay for tuition compared to surrounding and intermountain states leads one to conclusion that higher education in Nevada is a tremendous bargain, particularly when you factor in the Millennium Scholarships. That really, for any student who does reasonably well in high school and maintains decent college average grades, can get practically a free ride in terms of his tuition. I think that we’re going to have to take an honest look at that. Most of us that held jobs when we went through school and worked weekends and saved our money with after-school jobs in college, and in my case in law school, feel that maybe we appreciate it a little more.

Do you think the Millennium Scholarship program has been a success?

It certainly enabled many to enroll in school and experience it and go there who might have otherwise been discouraged from even trying. So sure, it has. Of course it has and it’s a great program. It, too, has its limits as we’ve seen and they’ve had to increase the criteria for applying for it to keep the fund balance.

What should be done to improve the transportation system in Nevada?

Well, obviously none of us like being in a traffic jam, but I was in New York last week, and I thought, “Boy oh boy, we’ve got to be thankful for what we have now.” Anytime I’m in Los Angeles or in a major city, by comparison Nevada’s doing a pretty darn good job. But I think the real key is planning for the future and alleviating the problems that we can see, if we don’t continue to expand it. I think our local officials as well as our state officials have done a good job of keeping ahead. Interstate 15 is always going to be a problem in downtown Las Vegas. The expansion down there that’s currently taking place is going to alleviate it for some of the commuters, but the beltway has been a fabulous addition. It’s taken the pressure off I-15 and this area of Summerlin ... continues to stay ahead. I see they’re doing an expansion on Tenaya Way to give a better north-south flow parallel to U.S. 95. One of the county officials told me one time that we build these north-south roads in the area of the Strip to help the tourists, but we build the east-west roads to help the voters. And they’ve done a relatively good job on that, raising the pedestrian crosswalks with the walkways enables the traffic to flow more quickly. All these innovations have benefited all of us.

What do you think about the high-speed rail link between Las Vegas and California? Do you support one of the systems that are out there right now?

I tend to support the maglev because I like the technology better. I also like the fact that it extends all the way into Orange County. For a Nevada resident, a stub rail that ends out in Lancaster or out in the desert when maybe you want to go to Disneyland or Los Angeles or San Diego doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. You’d have to rent a car halfway to your destination. I don’t think that makes that much sense. I also think that the maglev train would help alleviate traffic in Southern California for commuters who travel between the coastal communities with their work and actually reside out in San Bernardino and Riverside counties. So it seems to me that long term that’s a better resolution. It certainly would be a marvelous thing for our gaming community to be able to have people hop on that train and come over here safely and quickly and inexpensively and avoid the problems that go along with air travel.

Assess the job Jim Gibbons has done as governor. Do you expect to support his reelection? Why or why not?

Well, I’m not certain yet that the governor is going to seek reelection. It’s no secret that his political strength at this point has certainly declined into a zone that no politician wants to see. I have to say I’m a guy who lost a bid for reelection in 1982 and it was a painful process. I’d hate to see Jim go through that. I think his likelihood of winning is fairly reduced, not so much based on his performance as governor. In the fundamental job, for example, the tax situation he has largely approval of the position he’s taken. But it’s the surrounding noise in his personal life and some of the appointments he’s made and, to some extent if I understand the polls right, his style have hurt him badly. I think that history will say on the fundamentals, he’s been a good governor. The same thing was true in my case, actually. We did a lot of good things. But he’d be running in a very difficult time economically. It’s the old adage of “It’s the economy, stupid.” I think next year’s going to be one of those years where he would pay a heavy price for matters, some of which were not of his making.

With as much criticism as Gibbons has received as governor, why do you think there haven’t been any efforts to recall him? Is it because of some of that support on fundamentals you referenced?

I think it is. The question is who can do a better job. Who would have done it that much differently? I honestly think it’s more style and perception than it is the reality of what he’s done. I don’t think he’s broken any laws. I think he’s kept his word on no new taxes, which people especially appreciate in this economic climate. Somebody might not approve of his style, but just to bounce a guy under those circumstances would be highly unusual.

Do you agree with political consultant Sig Rogich that Nevada would be foolish to replace Sen. Harry Reid, given his power in Washington? Why or why not?

Nevadans are very independent people. Sig is a very politically oriented guy who looks to the politics. A lot of Nevadans are just going to assess Sen. Reid based on his performance and his policies and anything can happen. Anything. And Sen. Reid knows that. He doesn’t take this for granted. He’s assembled a massive war chest and that’s going to be difficult for anybody to overcome.

Do you think John Ensign should resign? What do you think of his acknowledged affair with a subordinate and his family’s payout to her?

I’m very saddened by that whole scenario. I’m very fond of the Ensign family, and I feel badly for them and for our state and for the embarrassment that it has engendered. A decision to resign, I don’t think, is in the cards. I think that John is going to attempt to live through this and overcome it and in the end, as it should be, it will be the voters’ decision.

How much has the affair damaged his reelection chances?

It would have some impact, but the cycle being what it is, he’s got three more years before he has to run and some people have short memories. If one believes the recent survey that was published, the majority of people don’t think he should resign right now, even in the heat of all this. While it certainly has diminished his popularity, his reelection chances, this far in advance, would be tough to assess. He works hard at his job. If you look around at this party, there are not a lot of superstars right now. The party is struggling.

Who do you consider to be the state’s top Republican?

In terms of elected leadership, I’d have to say the most unblemished, clean face out there belongs to Congressman Dean Heller. He’s well-liked. He’s run virtually statewide for a seat in the House and previous to that did run statewide for secretary of state. I think he would be the strongest candidate for any job currently. That’s a snapshot as of the moment. It could shift back to Sen. Ensign by the time October rolls around.

Who do you consider to be the state’s top Democrat?

I think, without question, Sen. Reid. He’s smart. He’s got good forward vision. He plans and he executes. He’s quite a guy.

Will the state’s Democrats in Congress have a greater role in the future?

I think Shelley Berkley, as long as she stays in her congressional district, has a very sound seat. She’d be very difficult to take out. Congresswoman Titus is a freshman, and she knows that she’s going to have a hard race. I think the likelihood that John Guedry is going to file against her is very high. Although people don’t know John very well, I’ve known him for many years. He’s a very bright and very decent guy. I think Titus signaled the fact that she is aware she’s in for a tough race when she went against the Obama administration on the health care plan.

Who do you think are the likely opponents in the 2010 governor’s race?

I think you’re going to see some more people get into it. On the Democrat side, you’re looking at (Nevada Assembly Speaker) Barbara Buckley and (Clark County Commission Chairman) Rory Reid as clearly the front-runners. It’ll be one of them, but hard to say which and hard to say how much spillover there will be between the senior Reid and the junior Reid in terms of support and opposition and will that affect his race. Nobody knows at this point. He certainly would hope, I’m sure, that people would recognize him as his own man, but there is that factor. He’ll also have, I think, a bit of a fundraising advantage over Speaker Buckley.

On the Republican side, we have two very good candidates right now with (former North Las Vegas Mayor Mike) Montandon and (former State Sen. Joe) Heck. I think you’ll see others emerge. If Gov. Gibbons does not seek reelection, there surely will be a candidate in the north in a Republican primary who would have a big advantage because the two southerners could split the vote down here. There’s been a little bit of talk about (Assemblywoman) Heidi Gansert, the Republican minority leader, a wonderful woman and very able person with a fine family. I think that she would be formidable if it were a three-way race, for example. She’d do very well.

I think what you’re going to see in 2010 in the governor’s race is the likelihood of a continuing decline in popularity of President Obama. His coattails last time were huge, but it’s the evolution of any new president, ordinarily, that he’s at his high point when he’s elected and it’s a steady erosion from that point forward. So his coattails are not going to be nearly as long in 2010, and there may be a lot of backlash against the Democrat Party at that point.

There’s already been some of that in the health care debate.

It’s in trouble, absolutely. People are very worried. Nobody likes that fact that we see what some consider to be greedy insurance companies taking advantage of us and ripping us off or a medical health industry that sometimes seems to be out of control. But I think people feel even more concerned about a big-government domination and having a bureaucrat between you and your doctor. Nobody that I’ve talked with wants that.

What do you think of the state’s initiative process? Would you like to see it changed? Why or why not?

It’s always been a part of a democratic republic to have initiatives come up from the grass roots. I think that there have been some abuses, though. Some of the proposals that have come forward to change our Constitution have been rooted in narrow sort of present-day interests that don’t look at the long term. I think that the process of paying people to go out and solicit signatures has been abused. The ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) organization was exhibit A in that regard. So it isn’t always good to accept the kind of advocacy that takes place on the street from the proponents of these measures who misrepresent them. People often sign petitions without even knowing what they’re doing. So I wouldn’t do away with it entirely, but I do think we need to put some restrictions on the manner in which these things are circulated and advocated.